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chad set his own permissions on those directories so i'll have to write the admin about

Browse source 
fixing it, it'll delete on the cvs, but it won't when it hits the shell.

removed chad's useless directory

removed old and obsolete irclog directory
This commit is contained in:
Nelson Rush 2000-01-08 07:12:31 +00:00
parent 855ab3a1b6
commit b0359d2216
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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Quake1 Source Documentation</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<H2>Quake1 Source Documentation</H2>
<UL>
<LI>Rendering
<LI>Networking
<LI>Game Logic
<LI>etc.
</UL>
This will be a hierarchical, database driven documentation repository
</BODY>
</HTML>

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before, so what do I know
<Ender> Are you going to register this channel with Chanserv?
<spinkham_> I've never started an IRC channel before.. I know NOTHING...
<spinkham_> You are welcome to help me out.. I was basically starting the chann
el cuz I wanted one.. If you know more then me feel free to take over ;-)
*** Ender sets mode: +o Ender
<Ender> (you didn't see me just op myself. *grins*)
<spinkham_> Well, I was gonna op you, but ok ;-)
*** Retrieving #quake-dev info...
*** Retrieving #quake-dev info...
*** theoddone33 changes topic to 'Quake-dev project on Sourceforge'
*** ChanServ sets mode: +nt
<theoddone33> hehe
<Ender> spinkham_: Um. Do you know how to register your nickname with nickserv?
<spinkham_> Nope...
<spinkham_> No one else wants to be spinkham anyway ;-)
<spinkham_> OK, I give.. How?
<Ender> This is just so you'll be autooped whenever you come into the channel :
)
<Ender> Type: /msg nickserv register thepasswordyouwant
-> *nickserv* register blah
<Ender> Whenever you connect here, you'll have to use: /msg nickserv identify y
ourpassword -before- you enter this channel, okay?
<spinkham_> K.. thanks...
<Ender> Try leaving the channel and coming back in.
<theoddone33> Does it do any good if you're not an op?
*** Retrieving #quake-dev info...
*** spinkham has joined #quake-dev<Ender> theoddone33: Yeah, it stops other peo
ple from using your nickname.
*** spinkham_ sets mode: +o spinkham
<Ender> hmm. you registered spinkham_, so you'll have to use that nickname to g
et autoops :)
*** spinkham_ has quit IRC ([x]chat)
*** spinkham has left #quake-dev
*** spinkham has joined #quake-dev
<theoddone33> Has anyone noticed the #ifdef QUAKE2 lines in the source? :)
<Ender> theoddone33: Yes :)
<theoddone33> I wonder how different it turns out if you compile with that on
*** spinkham is now known as spinkham_
*** spinkham_ has left #quake-dev
* theoddone33 is testing his knowledge of irc
*** spinkham_ has joined #quake-dev
<Ender> hrm.
<Ender> spinkham_: did you identify with nickserv?
*** spinkham_ has left #quake-dev
*** spinkham_ has joined #quake-dev
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o spinkham_
<Ender> There :)
<spinkham_> Now it's all good ;-)
<Ender> Does anyone want to write a "How to compile Quake under Linux" tutorial
for me? *grins*
<theoddone33> Ender: if everyone else leave this channel, would whoever's left
become an op?
<theoddone33> err... leaves
<Ender> theoddone33: Nope. Because it's registered, only people on the access l
ist [eg, spinkham_] will be op'ed [unless another op op's them :]
<theoddone33> Ender: How did you op yourself? Weird channel privilages?
<Ender> theoddone33: Do a whois on me.<theoddone33> Got it
<spinkham_> Ender: I can do for Quake1.. Quakeworld gives me compiler errors st
ill, so no can help ;-)
<Ender> theoddone33: Ignore the idsoftware bit, btw. *grins* I'm not The Man, t
hat's faked :P
<Ender> spinkham_: Even Quake1 is something :)
<theoddone33> Ender: hehe, I figured
<Ender> We have tutorials on compiling under Windows using MSVC.. and under Dos
using djgpp/gcc..
<theoddone33> I tried djgpp, but stopped when I couldn't find a Makefile :)
<Ender> I made one for dos.
<theoddone33> can you DCC it?
<theoddone33> por favor
<Ender> check http://qsg.telefragged.com [I can't dcc right now]
<theoddone33> k, thanks
<Ender> You need to make a small change to sys_dos.c too.
<theoddone33> Ender: Now I recognize your name, I visited qsg a couple days bac
k
<Ender> Before it had any content? :P
<spinkham_> I've got makefile fixes for the Linux version I will merge tonight,
and configuration should be greatly improved soon..
* Ender boasts about our site being the first. *grins*
<theoddone33> just a welcome msg
<Ender> I've also worked on Litestep, if you've ever heard of that.
<theoddone33> My site is telefragged hosted also :)
* Ender was bugging slade every hour. "Come on! The quake source is going to be
released in a few hours! I just know it!" (3 hours later, the source is releas
ed :P)
<theoddone33> I emailled Carmack and Zoid that afternoon asking if a source rel
ease was imminent. I didn't know just *how* imminent :)<Ender> *grins*
<Ender> I e-mailed him last christmas suggested a site like the QSG.
<Ender> Carmack replied on Christmas day saying it was a good idea, and if I ha
d the site up before THIS christmas he would mention it in the readme...
<Ender> but he released a few days early, dammit :P
<theoddone33> Ender: Got the makefile, thanks. Now if I can just figure out ho
w to make diff patches under windows :)
<Ender> hehe. There's a GNU port of diff for windows.
<Ender> Somewhere :P
<theoddone33> I don't know how to use diff anyway =)
<theoddone33> I can figure it out though
<theoddone33> Hmm.... diff oldfile newfile > patch ????
<Ender> yep. i think. I dunno. :)
*** DEADBEEF has joined #quake-dev
* theoddone33 wants his T1 connection back desperately
<Ender> hehe
<theoddone33> Hiya deadbeef
<DEADBEEF> Hey
<DEADBEEF> what's new ?
<Ender> I'm in Australia. Pity -us- :)
<spinkham_> under linux it is : diff -u oldfile newfile > patch???
<theoddone33> spinkham_: what's the "-u" for?
<DarkAngel> patch -p1 <patchfilename ??
<spinkham_> theoddone22: from the man page: -u Use the unified output forma
t
<theoddone33> thanks
<DEADBEEF> Does anyone know what magic is required to get the client to build w
ith Mesa > 2.6 under Linux ?
* theoddone33 mumbles "It's 33!"
<spinkham_> theoddone22: What this does is include header info and some context
lines..<spinkham_> theoddone33: My bad. New keyboard tonight for me ;-)
<theoddone33> No problem :)
<DEADBEEF> I suppose my question should be; what version of Mesa are you linkin
g against ?
<spinkham_> theoddone33: Bought an old IBM model "m" keyboard with ps/2 plug..
It's realy sweet! (can you tell I'm excited? ;-)
<DEADBEEF> Oooh, I have one of those too
* DEADBEEF "clickety-clack"
<spinkham_> ;-) Yeah.. bought 3 for ten each.. I love the feel.. anyway...
<DEADBEEF> Mine's from a model 60
<theoddone33> Oh yeah?? Well.. I just ordered a new comp monday... Dual Celer
on 400 :)
<DEADBEEF> Oooh... Stuck with a PII-300
<spinkham_> About building for Linux... The makefile is kinda crappy right now.
. I have a commented fixed one I'll be putting in the sourceforge CVS soon...
<Ender> I have a Celeron 400a!
<DEADBEEF> Yeah, it is crappy.
<Ender> with a non-gl supporting video card.
<Ender> A winmodem.
<theoddone33> Long Live Celeron!!!
<spinkham_> And am working on making configing it not so dumb..
<Ender> A non-dos compilent sound card.
<spinkham_> (celeron 400a here too)
<Ender> and. um. :)
<theoddone33> Ender: How much RAM?
*** Palisade has joined #quake-dev
<Palisade> hi
<DEADBEEF> hey
<spinkham_> Hey palisade
<theoddone33> hi palisade<Ender> 64 meg. 8 taken for the onboard video
<Ender> Heyas Palisade :)
<Palisade> wow... lots of people here ;)
<Ender> And in #qsg. :P
<Palisade> yeah i talked to the guy from qsg
<Ender> THE guy from qsg. :)
<Palisade> he said mainly his group just wants access to information so they ca
n write tutorials and provide any new quakec entries we come up with
<Palisade> ender, uhm one of the maintainers
<theoddone33> I think I know that guy :)
<Ender> I think I do too.
<Palisade> theodd ;)
<Ender> [Benig me and all]
*** Retrieving #quake-dev info...
<Ender> :)
<spinkham_> Palisade: Is there anyone else working on the Makefile? I'd like to
put my changes in CVS soon...
<Palisade> ok as i was saying in the forums
<spinkham_> Would be nice to get an easier to build version out there...
<Ender> [-- New QSG Tutorials Added: http://qsg.telefragged.com --]
<spinkham_> ooh.. new patches forum..
<Palisade> the best way to implement proper peer review is to establish a metho
d for reviewing and inserting a patch
<DEADBEEF> I don't know if you'd call it "working" on the Makefile ;)
<Palisade> and to come up with rules to accepting new developers (CVS write acc
ess)
<DEADBEEF> Who is the team leader ?
<Palisade> spink, yeah i added several new forums
<Palisade> spink, bugs and patches
<spinkham_> That means I gotta cut and paste patch files? this is conna cause s
ome porblem me thinks... Could it be a mailing list instead?<Palisade> dead, th
at'd be me
<DEADBEEF> Sorry, obtuse joke re:q3a
<DEADBEEF> But it's nice to know
<Palisade> i've also added entries to the bug tracker (spink, the ones you had
on your project initially)
<Palisade> we should start logging bugs to be worked on (i wish sourceforge had
a way for us to mark which ones we've hurdled)
<Ender> Palisade: Are they any bugs Maddes has fixed or listed?
<Palisade> also.... do you guys like the versioning system i have set up? year:
month:day
<theoddone33> Palisade: if it's good enough for wine, it'll work for us :)
<Palisade> ender, maddes was *just* added to the project like 20 mins ago
<spinkham_> Palisade: fine with me...
<Ender> hehe. He's slow. :)
<Palisade> spink, you're going to fix the directory names right?
<Palisade> ender, he didn't even respond to my email, so i don't know if he kno
ws he has access
<Palisade> ender, does he know how to use cvs?
<Palisade> which brings us back to the discussion at hand...
<Ender> Palisade: No he doesn't. I'm going to be writing a tutorial for the tha
t, per his request. *grins*
<Palisade> what sort of rules should we impose for maintaince of this project?
<Palisade> ender, sounds good... sourceforge has a quickie on it
* Palisade isn't a guru with cvs either
<Ender> Well, how much interplatform compatability are you planning on maintani
ng?
<Palisade> theoddone, a lot of projects use 0.1 or the date thing
<theoddone33> Ender: perhaps a tutorial on diff for those like myself would com
e in handy
<Palisade> theoddone, i thought about using a 1.1.1 or 0.1 thing, but 991221 se
emed more reasonable<Palisade> and it looks more elite ;)
<theoddone33> Palisade: IMO it's the most informative version system
<Palisade> theoddone, true... you immediately know on what day it was milestone
d
<spinkham_> Palisade: That's best for beta anyway.. When the project is cleaned
up we may want more of a 1.2.1 system perhaps...
<Palisade> ender, hmmm... every platform in existance..
<spinkham_> Palisade: To me dates on the project make me assume it's beta...
<spinkham_> Palisade: Maybe I'm just strange though ;-)
<Ender> I'm working on getting the Windows version to compile with the free lcc
compiler right now. Which is fun. :)
<Palisade> that's another thing... most of us in the developer list are mostly
linux biased.... i've added a new guy to maintain the solaris port, and another
to maintain win32 patches
<Palisade> spink, hm
<Ender> how about dos, hmm? :)
<Palisade> spink, maybe... we could always change it like that.. ie. if we go s
table go with #.#.# versioning, kindof makes sense
<DEADBEEF> How about the Mac port ? Does Westlake Interactive own their portio
n of the code ?
<Palisade> spink, i'm immediately declaring that what we currently are working
with is alpha code (even though id software considers it stable)
<Palisade> dead, i'm looking for one... knght mentioned on the mailing list he
has a friend who wants to work on the ppc code
<Palisade> er... the assembly bit of it
<spinkham_> ;-) yeah, we'll be hacking all over changing stuff to make it cross
platform and such.. Is a beta project, though is mostly release code...
<theoddone33> Palisade: keep in mind that some patches will affect all platform
s
<DEADBEEF> Palisade: God bless him ! I wouldn't want to (or be able to) do it
!
<Palisade> theoddone, right... hence the need for peer review
<Palisade> theoddone, we need a global set of standards/ruels<Palisade> s/ruels
/rules
<Palisade> deadbeef, no kidding ;)
<theoddone33> Rule proposal #1 - All patches must compile correctly to be added
into CVS :)
<DarkAngel> if people change the physics of quake in any way, even to fix bugs,
I will be very upset , I love physics quirks...bunnyhopping, rocket jumping, t
rimping, etc....
<DEADBEEF> Dunno if the C would kill me before the ASM ;)
<theoddone33> Rule proposal #2 - No patch shall break backwards compatability u
nless generally agreed by the developers
*** [Iceman] has joined #quake-dev
<Palisade> Rule proposal #2 - All patch authors are subject to pay royalties to
me.
<spinkham_> Palisade: ;-)
<DEADBEEF> hey iceman
<Palisade> spink, btw... are you logging this channel? i think we should keep l
ogs
<Palisade> spink, and post them... by date... in an archive on the website
<[Iceman]> if quake-dev wants its OWN irc server, i can set it up for you all =
)
<Palisade> spink, the one thing about irc (w/out logs) versus forums is that yo
u can't go back and look at the channel (unless you log it)
<theoddone33> Rule proposal #3 - All platform independant patches shall be appr
oved by representatives of each platform
*** Ender has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
<DarkAngel> ice: I think that would be a good idea...to bring together all the
quake source developers, because there's BOUND to be 0918230912 different engin
es, modifications, etc as time goes by
<Palisade> ice, really?
<[Iceman]> yeah
<Palisade> oh btw everyone who missed the announcement on the mailing list
<[Iceman]> irc admin is my speciality
<theoddone33> Rule proposal #4 - All patches shall represent progress, and not
regress
<Palisade> quakeforge.net is going to be our main domain
<spinkham_> Palisade: Nope, I'm not.. I'm not all that familiar with IRC manage
ment myself. ;-)
<[Iceman]> ill have it set up in a hour or so
<Palisade> it *should* link to quake.sourceforge.net
<DarkAngel> irc.quakeforge.net ?
<[Iceman]> if you guys want
<Palisade> but it doesn't right now
<spinkham_> Palisade: Ender helped me set up the channel..
<Palisade> dark, www.quakeforge.net (our new domain)
*** spinkham_ sets mode: +o Palisade
<Palisade> iceman, i'm guessing you need access to that domain if we're to use
it
* Palisade doesn't know much about the web
<Palisade> iceman, you can get in touch with omnibus via the mailing list (go t
o our project site and sign up)
<[Iceman]> no, ill just need you to point like irc. whatever to my server
<theoddone33> Rule Proposal #5 - Patches must have at least a 1 day (or more) w
aiting period before being added to CVS, so that any significant objections or
discussions have time to arise
<Palisade> iceman, he owns the domain
<spinkham_> Palisade: Who's providing dns?
<Palisade> ice, ok cool
<Palisade> spink, no idea
<Palisade> spink, he's handling all of that, and emails
<theoddone33> Read # 5 guys
<Palisade> spink, we'll all have quakeforge.net email addys ;)
<[Iceman]> im not much of a programmer, but helping game development is like my
dream =)
<Palisade> theoddone, i think i missed it<theoddone33> Rule Proposal #5 - Patch
es must have at least a 1 day (or more) waiting period before being added to CV
S, so that any significant objections or discussions have time to arise
<spinkham_> Rule Proposal #5 - Patches must have at least a 1 day (or more) wa
iting period before being added to CVS, so that any significant objections or
<spinkham_> ;-)
<DarkAngel> same
<theoddone33> 1 day may been too little
<theoddone33> err be
<Palisade> darkangel, btw.... there already are like 4 different projects that
i know of
<spinkham_> One day is enough.. CVS can be backed out if there are any major co
mplaints afterwords..
<theoddone33> ok
<theoddone33> should I send my proposals around the mailing list?
<DEADBEEF> Later guys
<[Iceman]> give me about 1 hr and the server will be ready with a temporary dom
ain
<Palisade> darkangel, spinkham was running gnuquake on sourceforge but shut it
down when he saw mine, and another guy is running openquake... he's joining thi
s project too though
<spinkham_> Any more then that is probably hamstringing the project a bit too m
uch ;-)
<Palisade> deadbeef, later
*** DEADBEEF has quit IRC (Quit: [x]chat)
<theoddone33> Spink: I was gonna say 3, but I figured that might be a little to
o much
<Palisade> spink/theodd, yeah i think a waiting period for insertions is a good
idea
<theoddone33> Rule proposal #6 - All patches will be announced on the mailing l
ist before being added to CVS
<Palisade> we should give it a week<spinkham_> Why a week?
<Palisade> spink, i hope you're logging this conversation ;)
<Palisade> spink, what if someone is in a drunken funk for a week?
<theoddone33> Palisade: I've been here a while, I can just copy it to a file wh
en I'm done
<Palisade> spink, and can't stand up let alone check the mailing list ;)
<Palisade> spink, like i'm going to be this new years ;)
<theoddone33> lol
<Palisade> theoddone, thanks...
<theoddone33> I may leave soon, it's perty late
<Palisade> we really do need a bot or something to log this channel when we tal
k and archive it by date on the website
* theoddone33 exclames "A Perl script!!!"
<spinkham_> Palisade: any changes that suck can be backed out.. that's one of t
he great things about CVS...
<Palisade> i wonder if sourceforge would mind us running eggdrops off their she
ll? ;)
<Palisade> spink, yeah... but a project this big could get out of hand rather f
ast
<spinkham_> Palisade: I would say 2 days at most.. CVS needs to be updated with
bugfixes regularly...
<Palisade> spink, esp. when we get to the point that something like mesa is at.
.. and we're just spammed with patches constantly
<spinkham_> Major changes should have more review..
<Palisade> 2 or 3 days sounds reasonable
<theoddone33> Rule proposal #7 - Only sober people shall update CVS
<spinkham_> ROTFL!
<Palisade> theoddone, hahaha
<[Iceman]> im sober 95% of the time
<[Iceman]> kinda
<theoddone33> Maybe we should do random drug testing?<theoddone33> No steroids
either
<[Iceman]> there... due to my leet irc skills, and irc server is working =)
<Palisade> Rule proposal #8 - Rule 7 exception, those drunks who program better
when they're drunk may update the CVS.
*** Knghtbrd has joined #quake-dev
<Knghtbrd> morning
<theoddone33> lol
<Palisade> ;)
<theoddone33> hi
<spinkham_> Hi
<Palisade> knght, hey
<Palisade> knght, you have a friend who wants to work on the ppc assembly port
right?
<[Iceman]> Palisade: i got the server going with a temp hostname
<Knghtbrd> Palisade: I don't know if he WANTS to do it yet or not, but I intend
to drag him in to it =D
<Palisade> knght, haha ;)
<Palisade> ice, ok good
<[Iceman]> uc1.dhs.org #quake-dev , completely isolated no one else there =)
<Palisade> ice, go to our project page and find out what omnibus's email is
<Knghtbrd> BTW, I already have a channel on OPN if we end up there
<Palisade> it's probably omnibus@users.sourceforge.net
<[Iceman]> ok
<Knghtbrd> title's a little more obscure (#q1src), but it wouldn't take me 5 mi
nutes to change that
<Palisade> ice, tell him how to do it too, i don't think he's skilled at this s
ort of thing, he screwed quakeforge.net up
<Palisade> it's pointing at sourceforge.net and not quake.sourceforge.net
<Knghtbrd> most of that time to remember the silly chanserv commands =>
<[Iceman]> with our own server, we'll have more control<Knghtbrd> yeah, but it
means I need a 3rd irc client
<Knghtbrd> =>
*** Palisade changes topic to 'QuakeForge Project'
<theoddone33> hehe, I set the first topic
<[Iceman]> server: uc1.dhs.org channel: #quake-dev if anyone wants to look
<Palisade> theodd, ah ;)
* Knghtbrd ends up in (yet) another coughing fit
<Knghtbrd> dammit
<Palisade> ice, should we make it #quakeforge?
<[Iceman]> its like 30 degrees in my toom
<theoddone33> Oh, BTW, I'm the guy who sent out the i740 message on the mailing
list in case y'all didn't know
<[Iceman]> i can do that
<Palisade> theodd, did the answer help/
<Palisade> ?
<Palisade> ice, dankeys
<[Iceman]> ok, done
<theoddone33> Palisade: I'm the guy who sent the answer :)
<Palisade> ice, so that's only temporary for now right?
* Knghtbrd really wants to avoid what happened with doom src =/
<[Iceman]> it perm
<spinkham_> Palisade: do we want a dev and a normal channel though?
<Palisade> theodd, ohhhhhhh
<[Iceman]> ill just need the new host
<Palisade> knght, what happened with it?
<[Iceman]> uc1.dhs.org will always work too
<Palisade> ice, ah sweet, thanks
<[Iceman]> glad to help out any way i can
<Palisade> ice, get omni to point: irc.quakeforge.net there
<Knghtbrd> Palisade: a million different (slightly incompatible) forks of the s
ame tree, lots of mistrust, lots of closed source (not possible under the GPL
normally), etc
<Palisade> ice, and thanks a ton
<Knghtbrd> and very little attention to portability
<[Iceman]> i feel lonely on the new server, im the only one =)
<Palisade> ice, for now we'll stay here, because people are reading the forum a
nd coming here because of spink's message... but i'll announce irc.quakeforge.n
et when it's ready
<[Iceman]> okie
<theoddone33> One project as opposed to 300 projects is good, but individual pr
ojects also have their own worth
<Palisade> knght, i'm really happy id gpl'd this
<theoddone33> If you doubt, check out www.raven-games.com/jhexen. That's *the*
best thing anyone's done with the DOOM source
<Palisade> knght, carmack is a genius
<Knghtbrd> theoddone33: the problem is that at least 4 doom ports I know of imp
lemented a console
<[Iceman]> omnibus@users.sourceforge.net right?
<Palisade> knght, yeah i think this project can really turn into a hub as "the"
quake project
<Knghtbrd> Palisade: yeah, Crow- and I got John to really liking the GPL... It
helps that he's both coder and decision type person...
<spinkham_> Palisade: Are we going to accomidate different branches of the proj
ect at any point?
<Knghtbrd> Getting 3dfx to release source was a pain in the ass
<Knghtbrd> I had to really wrestle with them on that
<Palisade> knght, i want this game to extend into a whole new environment... a
virtual paradise..
<Knghtbrd> the PHB's and lawyers just didn't understand
<theoddone33> I think all branched projects should still have a compatability m
ode with the main project for netplay
<theoddone33> That should be a rule
<Palisade> knght, i think that's where carmack is heading, he's mentioned virtu
al reality a lot in his .plan's
<theoddone33> or at least a strong suggestion :)
<Knghtbrd> someone finally convinced the PHBs that it was all good (wasn't me,
must have been their coders) and I ended up with email from one of theyr lawyer
s with questions
<Palisade> knght, yeah the great thing about gpl is that even though you can't
charge for the software, you can charge for distribution
<Palisade> knght, i think that's why carmack liked it
<[Iceman]> Palisade: whats his e-mail?
<Palisade> it allows the source to be open
* theoddone33 screams "We'll all be rich!"
<Palisade> but not defeat making it commercial
<Knghtbrd> actually, I can sell you the quake source for as much as I think you
'll pay
<Palisade> ice, no idea... check the project members.. here i'll do it
<[Iceman]> okie
<Knghtbrd> I just can't charge you for the source (other than what it costs me
to give it to you) once you have the bin
<Knghtbrd> theoddone33: heh, I had the VA IPO letter... *sob*
<spinkham_> Knghtbrd: speaking of which, who did the mini-gl port for 3dfx? is
that code gonna be avalibe at any point?
<Palisade> knght, you can charge any amount you want for the method of distribu
tion
<Knghtbrd> My fax was 12 MINUTES pas the deadline
<Palisade> knght, just like redhat can charge $100 for their distribution of li
nux
<Knghtbrd> I didn't get any VA shares at $30 each *sob*
<[Iceman]> should we limit the number of staff that runs the site and CVS?
<Palisade> knght, VA's IPO rocked, i cried<Knghtbrd> Palisade: yes
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<Knghtbrd> Palisade: yes again
<Palisade> ice, we're going over that
<[Iceman]> okay
<spinkham_> hey case
<case> heya
<Palisade> theodd, yeah i wrote an entry in the open forum for that
<[Iceman]> woohoo! kerosene heater! warm.....
<Palisade> theodd, i really think we should maintain an "old" or "compatible" m
ode
<case> hows the compiling going? ;)
<theoddone33> Palisade: agreed
<Knghtbrd> Palisade: John would be pissed if we don't
<Palisade> theodd, that way people can play regular old quake against each othe
r (or half-life, etc)
<Palisade> knght, yeah
<Palisade> and then they can flip the switch and play the "new" mode
<theoddone33> Palisade: I've got to go, so if I'm going to log this, it'll end
right here
<Palisade> which will include all the advancements we create
<Palisade> theoddone, ok
<Knghtbrd> I think we can actually put the "switch" in the pak file
<Palisade> someone else start logging maybe?
<Palisade> we need a bot dammit
<spinkham_> Palisade: I've been (i think ;-)
<Palisade> spink, you think?
<Palisade> i should probably be logging it, how do you log in bitchx?
* Knghtbrd is working on the EDGE "wad 2" format
<[Iceman]> Palisade: get his addy?
<Palisade> knght, EDGE?<Knghtbrd> it's mostly on paper now b/c of school
<Palisade> ice, email address
<[Iceman]> yeah
<Palisade> ice, oh... yeah hold on
<Knghtbrd> Palisade: dosdoom re-engineered to be portable, all around nicer, an
d just not suck like dosdoom did =>
<Knghtbrd> most of the gory details are hush-hush still
<Palisade> ice, omnibus@users.sourceforge.net
<[Iceman]> okie
<Knghtbrd> but wad2 isn't planned for our upcoming release anyway
<Palisade> hm
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<Knghtbrd> the idea is to use tar or something (q3a used zip afterall) and put
a directory tree in it.. If I extract the lumps and tack headers to the tops o
f the files that tell the engine about the contents I can (in theory) change th
e format later and add new toys while maintaining compatibility with the old st
uff
<Palisade> ice, btw... does your irc server have chanserv, or do we need an egg
drop, and can you supply that?
<[Iceman]> im supplying services and an eggdrop
<Knghtbrd> the issue of course is that we have to maintain compatibility with t
he original game files
<Palisade> ice, great
<[Iceman]> i programmed my own services
<Palisade> ice, the eggdrop too?
<Knghtbrd> so I have to make sure I can still pick apart a wad lump by lump and
for wads I'll just assume the correct headers since an old wad has to be forma
t "1.0" or whatever for everything
<Palisade> knght, yes<[Iceman]> i use standard eggie, but i have a few shells t
i set them up on
<Knghtbrd> we can do that kind of thing with q1/qw I suspect
<Palisade> knght, and we need to create a fully compatible pak file or get id t
o release it as gpl
<Knghtbrd> Deek isn't awake yet unfortunately
<Palisade> knght, talk to them about that
<Knghtbrd> he's got the best starting poing I think
<Palisade> knght, deek?
<Knghtbrd> them who? the EDGE people? I'm the one designing it
<Knghtbrd> Deek is the guy merging q1/qw trees and cleaning it all up
<theoddone33> ok, log ends right here

557
irclog/irclog-quakeforge-991224-part1.txt
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@ -1,557 +0,0 @@
before, so what do I know
<Ender> Are you going to register this channel with Chanserv?
<spinkham_> I've never started an IRC channel before.. I know NOTHING...
<spinkham_> You are welcome to help me out.. I was basically starting the chann
el cuz I wanted one.. If you know more then me feel free to take over ;-)
*** Ender sets mode: +o Ender
<Ender> (you didn't see me just op myself. *grins*)
<spinkham_> Well, I was gonna op you, but ok ;-)
*** Retrieving #quake-dev info...
*** Retrieving #quake-dev info...
*** theoddone33 changes topic to 'Quake-dev project on Sourceforge'
*** ChanServ sets mode: +nt
<theoddone33> hehe
<Ender> spinkham_: Um. Do you know how to register your nickname with nickserv?
<spinkham_> Nope...
<spinkham_> No one else wants to be spinkham anyway ;-)
<spinkham_> OK, I give.. How?
<Ender> This is just so you'll be autooped whenever you come into the channel :
)
<Ender> Type: /msg nickserv register thepasswordyouwant
-> *nickserv* register blah
<Ender> Whenever you connect here, you'll have to use: /msg nickserv identify y
ourpassword -before- you enter this channel, okay?
<spinkham_> K.. thanks...
<Ender> Try leaving the channel and coming back in.
<theoddone33> Does it do any good if you're not an op?
*** Retrieving #quake-dev info...
*** spinkham has joined #quake-dev<Ender> theoddone33: Yeah, it stops other peo
ple from using your nickname.
*** spinkham_ sets mode: +o spinkham
<Ender> hmm. you registered spinkham_, so you'll have to use that nickname to g
et autoops :)
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*** spinkham has left #quake-dev
*** spinkham has joined #quake-dev
<theoddone33> Has anyone noticed the #ifdef QUAKE2 lines in the source? :)
<Ender> theoddone33: Yes :)
<theoddone33> I wonder how different it turns out if you compile with that on
*** spinkham is now known as spinkham_
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* theoddone33 is testing his knowledge of irc
*** spinkham_ has joined #quake-dev
<Ender> hrm.
<Ender> spinkham_: did you identify with nickserv?
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*** ChanServ sets mode: +o spinkham_
<Ender> There :)
<spinkham_> Now it's all good ;-)
<Ender> Does anyone want to write a "How to compile Quake under Linux" tutorial
for me? *grins*
<theoddone33> Ender: if everyone else leave this channel, would whoever's left
become an op?
<theoddone33> err... leaves
<Ender> theoddone33: Nope. Because it's registered, only people on the access l
ist [eg, spinkham_] will be op'ed [unless another op op's them :]
<theoddone33> Ender: How did you op yourself? Weird channel privilages?
<Ender> theoddone33: Do a whois on me.<theoddone33> Got it
<spinkham_> Ender: I can do for Quake1.. Quakeworld gives me compiler errors st
ill, so no can help ;-)
<Ender> theoddone33: Ignore the idsoftware bit, btw. *grins* I'm not The Man, t
hat's faked :P
<Ender> spinkham_: Even Quake1 is something :)
<theoddone33> Ender: hehe, I figured
<Ender> We have tutorials on compiling under Windows using MSVC.. and under Dos
using djgpp/gcc..
<theoddone33> I tried djgpp, but stopped when I couldn't find a Makefile :)
<Ender> I made one for dos.
<theoddone33> can you DCC it?
<theoddone33> por favor
<Ender> check http://qsg.telefragged.com [I can't dcc right now]
<theoddone33> k, thanks
<Ender> You need to make a small change to sys_dos.c too.
<theoddone33> Ender: Now I recognize your name, I visited qsg a couple days bac
k
<Ender> Before it had any content? :P
<spinkham_> I've got makefile fixes for the Linux version I will merge tonight,
and configuration should be greatly improved soon..
* Ender boasts about our site being the first. *grins*
<theoddone33> just a welcome msg
<Ender> I've also worked on Litestep, if you've ever heard of that.
<theoddone33> My site is telefragged hosted also :)
* Ender was bugging slade every hour. "Come on! The quake source is going to be
released in a few hours! I just know it!" (3 hours later, the source is releas
ed :P)
<theoddone33> I emailled Carmack and Zoid that afternoon asking if a source rel
ease was imminent. I didn't know just *how* imminent :)<Ender> *grins*
<Ender> I e-mailed him last christmas suggested a site like the QSG.
<Ender> Carmack replied on Christmas day saying it was a good idea, and if I ha
d the site up before THIS christmas he would mention it in the readme...
<Ender> but he released a few days early, dammit :P
<theoddone33> Ender: Got the makefile, thanks. Now if I can just figure out ho
w to make diff patches under windows :)
<Ender> hehe. There's a GNU port of diff for windows.
<Ender> Somewhere :P
<theoddone33> I don't know how to use diff anyway =)
<theoddone33> I can figure it out though
<theoddone33> Hmm.... diff oldfile newfile > patch ????
<Ender> yep. i think. I dunno. :)
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* theoddone33 wants his T1 connection back desperately
<Ender> hehe
<theoddone33> Hiya deadbeef
<DEADBEEF> Hey
<DEADBEEF> what's new ?
<Ender> I'm in Australia. Pity -us- :)
<spinkham_> under linux it is : diff -u oldfile newfile > patch???
<theoddone33> spinkham_: what's the "-u" for?
<DarkAngel> patch -p1 <patchfilename ??
<spinkham_> theoddone22: from the man page: -u Use the unified output forma
t
<theoddone33> thanks
<DEADBEEF> Does anyone know what magic is required to get the client to build w
ith Mesa > 2.6 under Linux ?
* theoddone33 mumbles "It's 33!"
<spinkham_> theoddone22: What this does is include header info and some context
lines..<spinkham_> theoddone33: My bad. New keyboard tonight for me ;-)
<theoddone33> No problem :)
<DEADBEEF> I suppose my question should be; what version of Mesa are you linkin
g against ?
<spinkham_> theoddone33: Bought an old IBM model "m" keyboard with ps/2 plug..
It's realy sweet! (can you tell I'm excited? ;-)
<DEADBEEF> Oooh, I have one of those too
* DEADBEEF "clickety-clack"
<spinkham_> ;-) Yeah.. bought 3 for ten each.. I love the feel.. anyway...
<DEADBEEF> Mine's from a model 60
<theoddone33> Oh yeah?? Well.. I just ordered a new comp monday... Dual Celer
on 400 :)
<DEADBEEF> Oooh... Stuck with a PII-300
<spinkham_> About building for Linux... The makefile is kinda crappy right now.
. I have a commented fixed one I'll be putting in the sourceforge CVS soon...
<Ender> I have a Celeron 400a!
<DEADBEEF> Yeah, it is crappy.
<Ender> with a non-gl supporting video card.
<Ender> A winmodem.
<theoddone33> Long Live Celeron!!!
<spinkham_> And am working on making configing it not so dumb..
<Ender> A non-dos compilent sound card.
<spinkham_> (celeron 400a here too)
<Ender> and. um. :)
<theoddone33> Ender: How much RAM?
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<Palisade> hi
<DEADBEEF> hey
<spinkham_> Hey palisade
<theoddone33> hi palisade<Ender> 64 meg. 8 taken for the onboard video
<Ender> Heyas Palisade :)
<Palisade> wow... lots of people here ;)
<Ender> And in #qsg. :P
<Palisade> yeah i talked to the guy from qsg
<Ender> THE guy from qsg. :)
<Palisade> he said mainly his group just wants access to information so they ca
n write tutorials and provide any new quakec entries we come up with
<Palisade> ender, uhm one of the maintainers
<theoddone33> I think I know that guy :)
<Ender> I think I do too.
<Palisade> theodd ;)
<Ender> [Benig me and all]
*** Retrieving #quake-dev info...
<Ender> :)
<spinkham_> Palisade: Is there anyone else working on the Makefile? I'd like to
put my changes in CVS soon...
<Palisade> ok as i was saying in the forums
<spinkham_> Would be nice to get an easier to build version out there...
<Ender> [-- New QSG Tutorials Added: http://qsg.telefragged.com --]
<spinkham_> ooh.. new patches forum..
<Palisade> the best way to implement proper peer review is to establish a metho
d for reviewing and inserting a patch
<DEADBEEF> I don't know if you'd call it "working" on the Makefile ;)
<Palisade> and to come up with rules to accepting new developers (CVS write acc
ess)
<DEADBEEF> Who is the team leader ?
<Palisade> spink, yeah i added several new forums
<Palisade> spink, bugs and patches
<spinkham_> That means I gotta cut and paste patch files? this is conna cause s
ome porblem me thinks... Could it be a mailing list instead?<Palisade> dead, th
at'd be me
<DEADBEEF> Sorry, obtuse joke re:q3a
<DEADBEEF> But it's nice to know
<Palisade> i've also added entries to the bug tracker (spink, the ones you had
on your project initially)
<Palisade> we should start logging bugs to be worked on (i wish sourceforge had
a way for us to mark which ones we've hurdled)
<Ender> Palisade: Are they any bugs Maddes has fixed or listed?
<Palisade> also.... do you guys like the versioning system i have set up? year:
month:day
<theoddone33> Palisade: if it's good enough for wine, it'll work for us :)
<Palisade> ender, maddes was *just* added to the project like 20 mins ago
<spinkham_> Palisade: fine with me...
<Ender> hehe. He's slow. :)
<Palisade> spink, you're going to fix the directory names right?
<Palisade> ender, he didn't even respond to my email, so i don't know if he kno
ws he has access
<Palisade> ender, does he know how to use cvs?
<Palisade> which brings us back to the discussion at hand...
<Ender> Palisade: No he doesn't. I'm going to be writing a tutorial for the tha
t, per his request. *grins*
<Palisade> what sort of rules should we impose for maintaince of this project?
<Palisade> ender, sounds good... sourceforge has a quickie on it
* Palisade isn't a guru with cvs either
<Ender> Well, how much interplatform compatability are you planning on maintani
ng?
<Palisade> theoddone, a lot of projects use 0.1 or the date thing
<theoddone33> Ender: perhaps a tutorial on diff for those like myself would com
e in handy
<Palisade> theoddone, i thought about using a 1.1.1 or 0.1 thing, but 991221 se
emed more reasonable<Palisade> and it looks more elite ;)
<theoddone33> Palisade: IMO it's the most informative version system
<Palisade> theoddone, true... you immediately know on what day it was milestone
d
<spinkham_> Palisade: That's best for beta anyway.. When the project is cleaned
up we may want more of a 1.2.1 system perhaps...
<Palisade> ender, hmmm... every platform in existance..
<spinkham_> Palisade: To me dates on the project make me assume it's beta...
<spinkham_> Palisade: Maybe I'm just strange though ;-)
<Ender> I'm working on getting the Windows version to compile with the free lcc
compiler right now. Which is fun. :)
<Palisade> that's another thing... most of us in the developer list are mostly
linux biased.... i've added a new guy to maintain the solaris port, and another
to maintain win32 patches
<Palisade> spink, hm
<Ender> how about dos, hmm? :)
<Palisade> spink, maybe... we could always change it like that.. ie. if we go s
table go with #.#.# versioning, kindof makes sense
<DEADBEEF> How about the Mac port ? Does Westlake Interactive own their portio
n of the code ?
<Palisade> spink, i'm immediately declaring that what we currently are working
with is alpha code (even though id software considers it stable)
<Palisade> dead, i'm looking for one... knght mentioned on the mailing list he
has a friend who wants to work on the ppc code
<Palisade> er... the assembly bit of it
<spinkham_> ;-) yeah, we'll be hacking all over changing stuff to make it cross
platform and such.. Is a beta project, though is mostly release code...
<theoddone33> Palisade: keep in mind that some patches will affect all platform
s
<DEADBEEF> Palisade: God bless him ! I wouldn't want to (or be able to) do it
!
<Palisade> theoddone, right... hence the need for peer review
<Palisade> theoddone, we need a global set of standards/ruels<Palisade> s/ruels
/rules
<Palisade> deadbeef, no kidding ;)
<theoddone33> Rule proposal #1 - All patches must compile correctly to be added
into CVS :)
<DarkAngel> if people change the physics of quake in any way, even to fix bugs,
I will be very upset , I love physics quirks...bunnyhopping, rocket jumping, t
rimping, etc....
<DEADBEEF> Dunno if the C would kill me before the ASM ;)
<theoddone33> Rule proposal #2 - No patch shall break backwards compatability u
nless generally agreed by the developers
*** [Iceman] has joined #quake-dev
<Palisade> Rule proposal #2 - All patch authors are subject to pay royalties to
me.
<spinkham_> Palisade: ;-)
<DEADBEEF> hey iceman
<Palisade> spink, btw... are you logging this channel? i think we should keep l
ogs
<Palisade> spink, and post them... by date... in an archive on the website
<[Iceman]> if quake-dev wants its OWN irc server, i can set it up for you all =
)
<Palisade> spink, the one thing about irc (w/out logs) versus forums is that yo
u can't go back and look at the channel (unless you log it)
<theoddone33> Rule proposal #3 - All platform independant patches shall be appr
oved by representatives of each platform
*** Ender has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
<DarkAngel> ice: I think that would be a good idea...to bring together all the
quake source developers, because there's BOUND to be 0918230912 different engin
es, modifications, etc as time goes by
<Palisade> ice, really?
<[Iceman]> yeah
<Palisade> oh btw everyone who missed the announcement on the mailing list
<[Iceman]> irc admin is my speciality
<theoddone33> Rule proposal #4 - All patches shall represent progress, and not
regress
<Palisade> quakeforge.net is going to be our main domain
<spinkham_> Palisade: Nope, I'm not.. I'm not all that familiar with IRC manage
ment myself. ;-)
<[Iceman]> ill have it set up in a hour or so
<Palisade> it *should* link to quake.sourceforge.net
<DarkAngel> irc.quakeforge.net ?
<[Iceman]> if you guys want
<Palisade> but it doesn't right now
<spinkham_> Palisade: Ender helped me set up the channel..
<Palisade> dark, www.quakeforge.net (our new domain)
*** spinkham_ sets mode: +o Palisade
<Palisade> iceman, i'm guessing you need access to that domain if we're to use
it
* Palisade doesn't know much about the web
<Palisade> iceman, you can get in touch with omnibus via the mailing list (go t
o our project site and sign up)
<[Iceman]> no, ill just need you to point like irc. whatever to my server
<theoddone33> Rule Proposal #5 - Patches must have at least a 1 day (or more) w
aiting period before being added to CVS, so that any significant objections or
discussions have time to arise
<Palisade> iceman, he owns the domain
<spinkham_> Palisade: Who's providing dns?
<Palisade> ice, ok cool
<Palisade> spink, no idea
<Palisade> spink, he's handling all of that, and emails
<theoddone33> Read # 5 guys
<Palisade> spink, we'll all have quakeforge.net email addys ;)
<[Iceman]> im not much of a programmer, but helping game development is like my
dream =)
<Palisade> theoddone, i think i missed it<theoddone33> Rule Proposal #5 - Patch
es must have at least a 1 day (or more) waiting period before being added to CV
S, so that any significant objections or discussions have time to arise
<spinkham_> Rule Proposal #5 - Patches must have at least a 1 day (or more) wa
iting period before being added to CVS, so that any significant objections or
<spinkham_> ;-)
<DarkAngel> same
<theoddone33> 1 day may been too little
<theoddone33> err be
<Palisade> darkangel, btw.... there already are like 4 different projects that
i know of
<spinkham_> One day is enough.. CVS can be backed out if there are any major co
mplaints afterwords..
<theoddone33> ok
<theoddone33> should I send my proposals around the mailing list?
<DEADBEEF> Later guys
<[Iceman]> give me about 1 hr and the server will be ready with a temporary dom
ain
<Palisade> darkangel, spinkham was running gnuquake on sourceforge but shut it
down when he saw mine, and another guy is running openquake... he's joining thi
s project too though
<spinkham_> Any more then that is probably hamstringing the project a bit too m
uch ;-)
<Palisade> deadbeef, later
*** DEADBEEF has quit IRC (Quit: [x]chat)
<theoddone33> Spink: I was gonna say 3, but I figured that might be a little to
o much
<Palisade> spink/theodd, yeah i think a waiting period for insertions is a good
idea
<theoddone33> Rule proposal #6 - All patches will be announced on the mailing l
ist before being added to CVS
<Palisade> we should give it a week<spinkham_> Why a week?
<Palisade> spink, i hope you're logging this conversation ;)
<Palisade> spink, what if someone is in a drunken funk for a week?
<theoddone33> Palisade: I've been here a while, I can just copy it to a file wh
en I'm done
<Palisade> spink, and can't stand up let alone check the mailing list ;)
<Palisade> spink, like i'm going to be this new years ;)
<theoddone33> lol
<Palisade> theoddone, thanks...
<theoddone33> I may leave soon, it's perty late
<Palisade> we really do need a bot or something to log this channel when we tal
k and archive it by date on the website
* theoddone33 exclames "A Perl script!!!"
<spinkham_> Palisade: any changes that suck can be backed out.. that's one of t
he great things about CVS...
<Palisade> i wonder if sourceforge would mind us running eggdrops off their she
ll? ;)
<Palisade> spink, yeah... but a project this big could get out of hand rather f
ast
<spinkham_> Palisade: I would say 2 days at most.. CVS needs to be updated with
bugfixes regularly...
<Palisade> spink, esp. when we get to the point that something like mesa is at.
.. and we're just spammed with patches constantly
<spinkham_> Major changes should have more review..
<Palisade> 2 or 3 days sounds reasonable
<theoddone33> Rule proposal #7 - Only sober people shall update CVS
<spinkham_> ROTFL!
<Palisade> theoddone, hahaha
<[Iceman]> im sober 95% of the time
<[Iceman]> kinda
<theoddone33> Maybe we should do random drug testing?<theoddone33> No steroids
either
<[Iceman]> there... due to my leet irc skills, and irc server is working =)
<Palisade> Rule proposal #8 - Rule 7 exception, those drunks who program better
when they're drunk may update the CVS.
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<Knghtbrd> morning
<theoddone33> lol
<Palisade> ;)
<theoddone33> hi
<spinkham_> Hi
<Palisade> knght, hey
<Palisade> knght, you have a friend who wants to work on the ppc assembly port
right?
<[Iceman]> Palisade: i got the server going with a temp hostname
<Knghtbrd> Palisade: I don't know if he WANTS to do it yet or not, but I intend
to drag him in to it =D
<Palisade> knght, haha ;)
<Palisade> ice, ok good
<[Iceman]> uc1.dhs.org #quake-dev , completely isolated no one else there =)
<Palisade> ice, go to our project page and find out what omnibus's email is
<Knghtbrd> BTW, I already have a channel on OPN if we end up there
<Palisade> it's probably omnibus@users.sourceforge.net
<[Iceman]> ok
<Knghtbrd> title's a little more obscure (#q1src), but it wouldn't take me 5 mi
nutes to change that
<Palisade> ice, tell him how to do it too, i don't think he's skilled at this s
ort of thing, he screwed quakeforge.net up
<Palisade> it's pointing at sourceforge.net and not quake.sourceforge.net
<Knghtbrd> most of that time to remember the silly chanserv commands =>
<[Iceman]> with our own server, we'll have more control<Knghtbrd> yeah, but it
means I need a 3rd irc client
<Knghtbrd> =>
*** Palisade changes topic to 'QuakeForge Project'
<theoddone33> hehe, I set the first topic
<[Iceman]> server: uc1.dhs.org channel: #quake-dev if anyone wants to look
<Palisade> theodd, ah ;)
* Knghtbrd ends up in (yet) another coughing fit
<Knghtbrd> dammit
<Palisade> ice, should we make it #quakeforge?
<[Iceman]> its like 30 degrees in my toom
<theoddone33> Oh, BTW, I'm the guy who sent out the i740 message on the mailing
list in case y'all didn't know
<[Iceman]> i can do that
<Palisade> theodd, did the answer help/
<Palisade> ?
<Palisade> ice, dankeys
<[Iceman]> ok, done
<theoddone33> Palisade: I'm the guy who sent the answer :)
<Palisade> ice, so that's only temporary for now right?
* Knghtbrd really wants to avoid what happened with doom src =/
<[Iceman]> it perm
<spinkham_> Palisade: do we want a dev and a normal channel though?
<Palisade> theodd, ohhhhhhh
<[Iceman]> ill just need the new host
<Palisade> knght, what happened with it?
<[Iceman]> uc1.dhs.org will always work too
<Palisade> ice, ah sweet, thanks
<[Iceman]> glad to help out any way i can
<Palisade> ice, get omni to point: irc.quakeforge.net there
<Knghtbrd> Palisade: a million different (slightly incompatible) forks of the s
ame tree, lots of mistrust, lots of closed source (not possible under the GPL
normally), etc
<Palisade> ice, and thanks a ton
<Knghtbrd> and very little attention to portability
<[Iceman]> i feel lonely on the new server, im the only one =)
<Palisade> ice, for now we'll stay here, because people are reading the forum a
nd coming here because of spink's message... but i'll announce irc.quakeforge.n
et when it's ready
<[Iceman]> okie
<theoddone33> One project as opposed to 300 projects is good, but individual pr
ojects also have their own worth
<Palisade> knght, i'm really happy id gpl'd this
<theoddone33> If you doubt, check out www.raven-games.com/jhexen. That's *the*
best thing anyone's done with the DOOM source
<Palisade> knght, carmack is a genius
<Knghtbrd> theoddone33: the problem is that at least 4 doom ports I know of imp
lemented a console
<[Iceman]> omnibus@users.sourceforge.net right?
<Palisade> knght, yeah i think this project can really turn into a hub as "the"
quake project
<Knghtbrd> Palisade: yeah, Crow- and I got John to really liking the GPL... It
helps that he's both coder and decision type person...
<spinkham_> Palisade: Are we going to accomidate different branches of the proj
ect at any point?
<Knghtbrd> Getting 3dfx to release source was a pain in the ass
<Knghtbrd> I had to really wrestle with them on that
<Palisade> knght, i want this game to extend into a whole new environment... a
virtual paradise..
<Knghtbrd> the PHB's and lawyers just didn't understand
<theoddone33> I think all branched projects should still have a compatability m
ode with the main project for netplay
<theoddone33> That should be a rule
<Palisade> knght, i think that's where carmack is heading, he's mentioned virtu
al reality a lot in his .plan's
<theoddone33> or at least a strong suggestion :)
<Knghtbrd> someone finally convinced the PHBs that it was all good (wasn't me,
must have been their coders) and I ended up with email from one of theyr lawyer
s with questions
<Palisade> knght, yeah the great thing about gpl is that even though you can't
charge for the software, you can charge for distribution
<Palisade> knght, i think that's why carmack liked it
<[Iceman]> Palisade: whats his e-mail?
<Palisade> it allows the source to be open
* theoddone33 screams "We'll all be rich!"
<Palisade> but not defeat making it commercial
<Knghtbrd> actually, I can sell you the quake source for as much as I think you
'll pay
<Palisade> ice, no idea... check the project members.. here i'll do it
<[Iceman]> okie
<Knghtbrd> I just can't charge you for the source (other than what it costs me
to give it to you) once you have the bin
<Knghtbrd> theoddone33: heh, I had the VA IPO letter... *sob*
<spinkham_> Knghtbrd: speaking of which, who did the mini-gl port for 3dfx? is
that code gonna be avalibe at any point?
<Palisade> knght, you can charge any amount you want for the method of distribu
tion
<Knghtbrd> My fax was 12 MINUTES pas the deadline
<Palisade> knght, just like redhat can charge $100 for their distribution of li
nux
<Knghtbrd> I didn't get any VA shares at $30 each *sob*
<[Iceman]> should we limit the number of staff that runs the site and CVS?
<Palisade> knght, VA's IPO rocked, i cried<Knghtbrd> Palisade: yes
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<Knghtbrd> Palisade: yes again
<Palisade> ice, we're going over that
<[Iceman]> okay
<spinkham_> hey case
<case> heya
<Palisade> theodd, yeah i wrote an entry in the open forum for that
<[Iceman]> woohoo! kerosene heater! warm.....
<Palisade> theodd, i really think we should maintain an "old" or "compatible" m
ode
<case> hows the compiling going? ;)
<theoddone33> Palisade: agreed
<Knghtbrd> Palisade: John would be pissed if we don't
<Palisade> theodd, that way people can play regular old quake against each othe
r (or half-life, etc)
<Palisade> knght, yeah
<Palisade> and then they can flip the switch and play the "new" mode
<theoddone33> Palisade: I've got to go, so if I'm going to log this, it'll end
right here
<Palisade> which will include all the advancements we create
<Palisade> theoddone, ok
<Knghtbrd> I think we can actually put the "switch" in the pak file
<Palisade> someone else start logging maybe?
<Palisade> we need a bot dammit
<spinkham_> Palisade: I've been (i think ;-)
<Palisade> spink, you think?
<Palisade> i should probably be logging it, how do you log in bitchx?
* Knghtbrd is working on the EDGE "wad 2" format
<[Iceman]> Palisade: get his addy?
<Palisade> knght, EDGE?<Knghtbrd> it's mostly on paper now b/c of school
<Palisade> ice, email address
<[Iceman]> yeah
<Palisade> ice, oh... yeah hold on
<Knghtbrd> Palisade: dosdoom re-engineered to be portable, all around nicer, an
d just not suck like dosdoom did =>
<Knghtbrd> most of the gory details are hush-hush still
<Palisade> ice, omnibus@users.sourceforge.net
<[Iceman]> okie
<Knghtbrd> but wad2 isn't planned for our upcoming release anyway
<Palisade> hm
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<Knghtbrd> the idea is to use tar or something (q3a used zip afterall) and put
a directory tree in it.. If I extract the lumps and tack headers to the tops o
f the files that tell the engine about the contents I can (in theory) change th
e format later and add new toys while maintaining compatibility with the old st
uff
<Palisade> ice, btw... does your irc server have chanserv, or do we need an egg
drop, and can you supply that?
<[Iceman]> im supplying services and an eggdrop
<Knghtbrd> the issue of course is that we have to maintain compatibility with t
he original game files
<Palisade> ice, great
<[Iceman]> i programmed my own services
<Palisade> ice, the eggdrop too?
<Knghtbrd> so I have to make sure I can still pick apart a wad lump by lump and
for wads I'll just assume the correct headers since an old wad has to be forma
t "1.0" or whatever for everything
<Palisade> knght, yes<[Iceman]> i use standard eggie, but i have a few shells t
i set them up on
<Knghtbrd> we can do that kind of thing with q1/qw I suspect
<Palisade> knght, and we need to create a fully compatible pak file or get id t
o release it as gpl
<Knghtbrd> Deek isn't awake yet unfortunately
<Palisade> knght, talk to them about that
<Knghtbrd> he's got the best starting poing I think
<Palisade> knght, deek?
<Knghtbrd> them who? the EDGE people? I'm the one designing it
<Knghtbrd> Deek is the guy merging q1/qw trees and cleaning it all up
<theoddone33> ok, log ends right here