website/irclog/irclog-quakeforge-991224-part1.txt

  before, so what do I know
<Ender> Are you going to register this channel with Chanserv?
<spinkham_> I've never started an IRC channel before.. I know NOTHING...
<spinkham_> You are welcome to help me out.. I was basically starting the chann
el cuz I wanted one.. If you know more then me feel free to take over ;-)
*** Ender sets mode: +o Ender
<Ender> (you didn't see me just op myself. *grins*)
<spinkham_> Well, I was gonna op you, but ok ;-)
*** Retrieving #quake-dev info...
*** Retrieving #quake-dev info...
*** theoddone33 changes topic to 'Quake-dev project on Sourceforge'
*** ChanServ sets mode: +nt
<theoddone33> hehe
<Ender> spinkham_: Um. Do you know how to register your nickname with nickserv?
<spinkham_> Nope...
<spinkham_> No one else wants to be spinkham anyway ;-)
<spinkham_> OK, I give.. How?
<Ender> This is just so you'll be autooped whenever you come into the channel :
)
<Ender> Type: /msg nickserv register thepasswordyouwant
-> *nickserv* register blah
<Ender> Whenever you connect here, you'll have to use: /msg nickserv identify y
ourpassword -before- you enter this channel, okay?
<spinkham_> K.. thanks...
<Ender> Try leaving the channel and coming back in.
<theoddone33> Does it do any good if you're not an op?
*** Retrieving #quake-dev info...
*** spinkham has joined #quake-dev<Ender> theoddone33: Yeah, it stops other peo
ple from using your nickname.
*** spinkham_ sets mode: +o spinkham
<Ender> hmm. you registered spinkham_, so you'll have to use that nickname to g
et autoops :)
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<theoddone33> Has anyone noticed the #ifdef QUAKE2 lines in the source? :)
<Ender> theoddone33: Yes :)
<theoddone33> I wonder how different it turns out if you compile with that on
*** spinkham is now known as spinkham_
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* theoddone33 is testing his knowledge of irc
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<Ender> hrm.
<Ender> spinkham_: did you identify with nickserv?
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<Ender> There :)
<spinkham_> Now it's all good ;-)
<Ender> Does anyone want to write a "How to compile Quake under Linux" tutorial
 for me? *grins*
<theoddone33> Ender: if everyone else leave this channel, would whoever's left 
become an op?
<theoddone33> err... leaves
<Ender> theoddone33: Nope. Because it's registered, only people on the access l
ist [eg, spinkham_] will be op'ed [unless another op op's them :]
<theoddone33> Ender: How did you op yourself?  Weird channel privilages?
<Ender> theoddone33: Do a whois on me.<theoddone33> Got it
<spinkham_> Ender: I can do for Quake1.. Quakeworld gives me compiler errors st
ill, so no can help ;-)
<Ender> theoddone33: Ignore the idsoftware bit, btw. *grins* I'm not The Man, t
hat's faked :P
<Ender> spinkham_: Even Quake1 is something :)
<theoddone33> Ender: hehe, I figured
<Ender> We have tutorials on compiling under Windows using MSVC.. and under Dos
 using djgpp/gcc..
<theoddone33> I tried djgpp, but stopped when I couldn't find a Makefile :)
<Ender> I made one for dos.
<theoddone33> can you DCC it?
<theoddone33> por favor
<Ender> check http://qsg.telefragged.com [I can't dcc right now]
<theoddone33> k, thanks
<Ender> You need to make a small change to sys_dos.c too.
<theoddone33> Ender: Now I recognize your name, I visited qsg a couple days bac
k
<Ender> Before it had any content? :P
<spinkham_> I've got makefile fixes for the Linux version I will merge tonight,
 and configuration should be greatly improved soon..
* Ender boasts about our site being the first. *grins*
<theoddone33> just a welcome msg
<Ender> I've also worked on Litestep, if you've ever heard of that.
<theoddone33> My site is telefragged hosted also :)
* Ender was bugging slade every hour. "Come on! The quake source is going to be
 released in a few hours! I just know it!" (3 hours later, the source is releas
ed :P)
<theoddone33> I emailled Carmack and Zoid that afternoon asking if a source rel
ease was imminent.  I didn't know just *how* imminent :)<Ender> *grins*
<Ender> I e-mailed him last christmas suggested a site like the QSG.
<Ender> Carmack replied on Christmas day saying it was a good idea, and if I ha
d the site up before THIS christmas he would mention it in the readme...
<Ender> but he released a few days early, dammit :P
<theoddone33> Ender: Got the makefile, thanks.  Now if I can just figure out ho
w to make diff patches under windows :)
<Ender> hehe. There's a GNU port of diff for windows.
<Ender> Somewhere :P
<theoddone33> I don't know how to use diff anyway =)
<theoddone33> I can figure it out though
<theoddone33> Hmm....  diff oldfile newfile > patch ????
<Ender> yep. i think. I dunno. :)
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* theoddone33 wants his T1 connection back desperately
<Ender> hehe
<theoddone33> Hiya deadbeef
<DEADBEEF> Hey
<DEADBEEF> what's new ?
<Ender> I'm in Australia. Pity -us- :)
<spinkham_> under linux it is : diff -u oldfile newfile > patch???
<theoddone33> spinkham_:  what's the "-u" for?
<DarkAngel> patch -p1 <patchfilename ??
<spinkham_> theoddone22: from the man page: -u     Use the unified output forma
t
<theoddone33> thanks
<DEADBEEF> Does anyone know what magic is required to get the client to build w
ith Mesa > 2.6 under Linux ?
* theoddone33 mumbles "It's 33!"
<spinkham_> theoddone22: What this does is include header info and some context
 lines..<spinkham_> theoddone33:  My bad. New keyboard tonight for me ;-)
<theoddone33> No problem :)
<DEADBEEF> I suppose my question should be; what version of Mesa are you linkin
g against ?
<spinkham_> theoddone33:  Bought an old IBM model "m" keyboard with ps/2 plug..
 It's realy sweet! (can you tell I'm excited? ;-)
<DEADBEEF> Oooh, I have one of those too
* DEADBEEF "clickety-clack"
<spinkham_> ;-) Yeah.. bought 3 for ten each.. I love the feel.. anyway...
<DEADBEEF> Mine's from a model 60
<theoddone33> Oh yeah??  Well.. I just ordered a new comp monday...  Dual Celer
on 400 :)
<DEADBEEF> Oooh... Stuck with a PII-300
<spinkham_> About building for Linux... The makefile is kinda crappy right now.
. I have a commented fixed one I'll be putting in the sourceforge CVS soon...
<Ender> I have a Celeron 400a!
<DEADBEEF> Yeah, it is crappy.
<Ender> with a non-gl supporting video card.
<Ender> A winmodem.
<theoddone33> Long Live Celeron!!!
<spinkham_> And am working on making configing it not so dumb..
<Ender> A non-dos compilent sound card.
<spinkham_> (celeron 400a here too)
<Ender> and. um. :)
<theoddone33> Ender: How much RAM?
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<Palisade> hi
<DEADBEEF> hey
<spinkham_> Hey palisade
<theoddone33> hi palisade<Ender> 64 meg. 8 taken for the onboard video
<Ender> Heyas Palisade :)
<Palisade> wow... lots of people here ;)
<Ender> And in #qsg. :P
<Palisade> yeah i talked to the guy from qsg
<Ender> THE guy from qsg. :)
<Palisade> he said mainly his group just wants access to information so they ca
n write tutorials and provide any new quakec entries we come up with
<Palisade> ender, uhm one of the maintainers
<theoddone33> I think I know that guy :)
<Ender> I think I do too.
<Palisade> theodd ;)
<Ender> [Benig me and all]
*** Retrieving #quake-dev info...
<Ender> :)
<spinkham_> Palisade: Is there anyone else working on the Makefile? I'd like to
 put my changes in CVS soon... 
<Palisade> ok as i was saying in the forums
<spinkham_> Would be nice to get an easier to build version out there...
<Ender> [-- New QSG Tutorials Added: http://qsg.telefragged.com --]
<spinkham_> ooh.. new patches forum..
<Palisade> the best way to implement proper peer review is to establish a metho
d for reviewing and inserting a patch
<DEADBEEF> I don't know if you'd call it "working" on the Makefile ;)
<Palisade> and to come up with rules to accepting new developers (CVS write acc
ess)
<DEADBEEF> Who is the team leader ?
<Palisade> spink, yeah i added several new forums
<Palisade> spink, bugs and patches
<spinkham_> That means I gotta cut and paste patch files? this is conna cause s
ome porblem me thinks... Could it be a mailing list instead?<Palisade> dead, th
at'd be me
<DEADBEEF> Sorry, obtuse joke re:q3a
<DEADBEEF> But it's nice to know
<Palisade> i've also added entries to the bug tracker (spink, the ones you had 
on your project initially)
<Palisade> we should start logging bugs to be worked on (i wish sourceforge had
 a way for us to mark which ones we've hurdled)
<Ender> Palisade: Are they any bugs Maddes has fixed or listed?
<Palisade> also.... do you guys like the versioning system i have set up? year:
month:day
<theoddone33> Palisade: if it's good enough for wine, it'll work for us :)
<Palisade> ender, maddes was *just* added to the project like 20 mins ago
<spinkham_> Palisade: fine with me...
<Ender> hehe. He's slow. :)
<Palisade> spink, you're going to fix the directory names right?
<Palisade> ender, he didn't even respond to my email, so i don't know if he kno
ws he has access
<Palisade> ender, does he know how to use cvs?
<Palisade> which brings us back to the discussion at hand...
<Ender> Palisade: No he doesn't. I'm going to be writing a tutorial for the tha
t, per his request. *grins*
<Palisade> what sort of rules should we impose for maintaince of this project?
<Palisade> ender, sounds good... sourceforge has a quickie on it
* Palisade isn't a guru with cvs either
<Ender> Well, how much interplatform compatability are you planning on maintani
ng?
<Palisade> theoddone, a lot of projects use 0.1 or the date thing
<theoddone33> Ender: perhaps a tutorial on diff for those like myself would com
e in handy
<Palisade> theoddone, i thought about using a 1.1.1 or 0.1 thing, but 991221 se
emed more reasonable<Palisade> and it looks more elite ;)
<theoddone33> Palisade: IMO it's the most informative version system
<Palisade> theoddone, true... you immediately know on what day it was milestone
d
<spinkham_> Palisade: That's best for beta anyway.. When the project is cleaned
 up we may want more of a 1.2.1 system perhaps...
<Palisade> ender, hmmm... every platform in existance..
<spinkham_> Palisade: To me dates on the project make me assume it's beta...
<spinkham_> Palisade: Maybe I'm just strange though ;-)
<Ender> I'm working on getting the Windows version to compile with the free lcc
 compiler right now. Which is fun. :)
<Palisade> that's another thing... most of us in the developer list are mostly 
linux biased.... i've added a new guy to maintain the solaris port, and another
 to maintain win32 patches
<Palisade> spink, hm
<Ender> how about dos, hmm? :)
<Palisade> spink, maybe... we could always change it like that.. ie. if we go s
table go with #.#.# versioning, kindof makes sense
<DEADBEEF> How about the Mac port ?  Does Westlake Interactive own their portio
n of the code ?
<Palisade> spink, i'm immediately declaring that what we currently are working 
with is alpha code (even though id software considers it stable)
<Palisade> dead, i'm looking for one... knght mentioned on the mailing list he 
has a friend who wants to work on the ppc code
<Palisade> er... the assembly bit of it
<spinkham_> ;-) yeah, we'll be hacking all over changing stuff to make it cross
platform and such.. Is a beta project, though is mostly release code...
<theoddone33> Palisade: keep in mind that some patches will affect all platform
s
<DEADBEEF> Palisade: God bless him !  I wouldn't want to (or be able to) do it 
!
<Palisade> theoddone, right... hence the need for peer review
<Palisade> theoddone, we need a global set of standards/ruels<Palisade> s/ruels
/rules
<Palisade> deadbeef, no kidding ;)
<theoddone33> Rule proposal #1 - All patches must compile correctly to be added
 into CVS :)
<DarkAngel> if people change the physics of quake in any way, even to fix bugs,
 I will be very upset , I love physics quirks...bunnyhopping, rocket jumping, t
rimping, etc....
<DEADBEEF> Dunno if the C would kill me before the ASM ;)
<theoddone33> Rule proposal #2 - No patch shall break backwards compatability u
nless generally agreed by the developers
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<Palisade> Rule proposal #2 - All patch authors are subject to pay royalties to
 me.
<spinkham_> Palisade: ;-)
<DEADBEEF> hey iceman
<Palisade> spink, btw... are you logging this channel? i think we should keep l
ogs
<Palisade> spink, and post them... by date... in an archive on the website
<[Iceman]> if quake-dev wants its OWN irc server, i can set it up for you all =
)
<Palisade> spink, the one thing about irc (w/out logs) versus forums is that yo
u can't go back and look at the channel (unless you log it)
<theoddone33> Rule proposal #3 - All platform independant patches shall be appr
oved by representatives of each platform
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<DarkAngel> ice: I think that would be a good idea...to bring together all the 
quake source developers, because there's BOUND to be 0918230912 different engin
es, modifications, etc as time goes by
<Palisade> ice, really?
<[Iceman]> yeah
<Palisade> oh btw everyone who missed the announcement on the mailing list
<[Iceman]> irc admin is my speciality
<theoddone33> Rule proposal #4 - All patches shall represent progress, and not 
  regress
<Palisade> quakeforge.net is going to be our main domain
<spinkham_> Palisade: Nope, I'm not.. I'm not all that familiar with IRC manage
ment myself. ;-)
<[Iceman]> ill have it set up in a hour or so
<Palisade> it *should* link to quake.sourceforge.net
<DarkAngel> irc.quakeforge.net ?
<[Iceman]> if you guys want
<Palisade> but it doesn't right now
<spinkham_> Palisade: Ender helped me set up the channel..
<Palisade> dark, www.quakeforge.net (our new domain)
*** spinkham_ sets mode: +o Palisade
<Palisade> iceman, i'm guessing you need access to that domain if we're to use 
it
* Palisade doesn't know much about the web
<Palisade> iceman, you can get in touch with omnibus via the mailing list (go t
o our project site and sign up)
<[Iceman]> no, ill just need you to point like irc. whatever to my server
<theoddone33> Rule Proposal #5 - Patches must have at least a 1 day (or more) w
aiting period before being added to CVS, so that any significant objections or 
discussions have time to arise
<Palisade> iceman, he owns the domain
<spinkham_> Palisade: Who's providing dns?
<Palisade> ice, ok cool
<Palisade> spink, no idea
<Palisade> spink, he's handling all of that, and emails
<theoddone33> Read # 5 guys
<Palisade> spink, we'll all have quakeforge.net email addys ;)
<[Iceman]> im not much of a programmer, but helping game development is like my
 dream =)
<Palisade> theoddone, i think i missed it<theoddone33> Rule Proposal #5 - Patch
es must have at least a 1 day (or more) waiting period before being added to CV
S, so that any significant objections or discussions have time to arise
<spinkham_>  Rule Proposal #5 - Patches must have at least a 1 day (or more) wa
iting period before being added to CVS, so that any significant objections or
<spinkham_> ;-)
<DarkAngel> same
<theoddone33> 1 day may been too little
<theoddone33> err be
<Palisade> darkangel, btw.... there already are like 4 different projects that 
i know of
<spinkham_> One day is enough.. CVS can be backed out if there are any major co
mplaints afterwords..
<theoddone33> ok
<theoddone33> should I send my proposals around the mailing list?
<DEADBEEF> Later guys
<[Iceman]> give me about 1 hr and the server will be ready with a temporary dom
ain
<Palisade> darkangel, spinkham was running gnuquake on sourceforge but shut it 
down when he saw mine, and another guy is running openquake... he's joining thi
s project too though
<spinkham_> Any more then that is probably hamstringing the project a bit too m
uch ;-)
<Palisade> deadbeef, later
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<theoddone33> Spink: I was gonna say 3, but I figured that might be a little to
o much
<Palisade> spink/theodd, yeah i think a waiting period for insertions is a good
 idea
<theoddone33> Rule proposal #6 - All patches will be announced on the mailing l
ist before being added to CVS
<Palisade> we should give it a week<spinkham_> Why a week?
<Palisade> spink, i hope you're logging this conversation ;)
<Palisade> spink, what if someone is in a drunken funk for a week?
<theoddone33> Palisade: I've been here a while, I can just copy it to a file wh
en I'm done
<Palisade> spink, and can't stand up let alone check the mailing list ;)
<Palisade> spink, like i'm going to be this new years ;)
<theoddone33> lol
<Palisade> theoddone, thanks...
<theoddone33> I may leave soon, it's perty late
<Palisade> we really do need a bot or something to log this channel when we tal
k and archive it by date on the website
* theoddone33 exclames "A Perl script!!!"
<spinkham_> Palisade: any changes that suck can be backed out.. that's one of t
he great things about CVS...
<Palisade> i wonder if sourceforge would mind us running eggdrops off their she
ll? ;)
<Palisade> spink, yeah... but a project this big could get out of hand rather f
ast
<spinkham_> Palisade: I would say 2 days at most.. CVS needs to be updated with
 bugfixes regularly...
<Palisade> spink, esp. when we get to the point that something like mesa is at.
.. and we're just spammed with patches constantly
<spinkham_> Major changes should have more review..
<Palisade> 2 or 3 days sounds reasonable
<theoddone33> Rule proposal #7 - Only sober people shall update CVS
<spinkham_> ROTFL!
<Palisade> theoddone, hahaha
<[Iceman]> im sober 95% of the time
<[Iceman]> kinda
<theoddone33> Maybe we should do random drug testing?<theoddone33> No steroids 
either
<[Iceman]> there... due to my leet irc skills, and irc server is working =)
<Palisade> Rule proposal #8 - Rule 7 exception, those drunks who program better
 when they're drunk may update the CVS.
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<Knghtbrd> morning
<theoddone33> lol
<Palisade> ;)
<theoddone33> hi
<spinkham_> Hi
<Palisade> knght, hey
<Palisade> knght, you have a friend who wants to work on the ppc assembly port 
right?
<[Iceman]> Palisade: i got the server going with a temp hostname
<Knghtbrd> Palisade: I don't know if he WANTS to do it yet or not, but I intend
 to drag him in to it  =D
<Palisade> knght, haha ;)
<Palisade> ice, ok good
<[Iceman]> uc1.dhs.org #quake-dev , completely isolated no one else there =)
<Palisade> ice, go to our project page and find out what omnibus's email is
<Knghtbrd> BTW, I already have a channel on OPN if we end up there
<Palisade> it's probably omnibus@users.sourceforge.net
<[Iceman]> ok
<Knghtbrd> title's a little more obscure (#q1src), but it wouldn't take me 5 mi
nutes to change that
<Palisade> ice, tell him how to do it too, i don't think he's skilled at this s
ort of thing, he screwed quakeforge.net up
<Palisade> it's pointing at sourceforge.net and not quake.sourceforge.net
<Knghtbrd> most of that time to remember the silly chanserv commands  =>
<[Iceman]> with our own server, we'll have more control<Knghtbrd> yeah, but it 
means I need a 3rd irc client
<Knghtbrd> =>
*** Palisade changes topic to 'QuakeForge Project'
<theoddone33> hehe, I set the first topic
<[Iceman]> server: uc1.dhs.org channel: #quake-dev if anyone wants to look 
<Palisade> theodd, ah ;)
* Knghtbrd ends up in (yet) another coughing fit
<Knghtbrd> dammit
<Palisade> ice, should we make it #quakeforge?
<[Iceman]> its like 30 degrees in my toom
<theoddone33> Oh, BTW, I'm the guy who sent out the i740 message on the mailing
 list in case y'all didn't know
<[Iceman]> i can do that
<Palisade> theodd, did the answer help/
<Palisade> ?
<Palisade> ice, dankeys
<[Iceman]> ok, done
<theoddone33> Palisade: I'm the guy who sent the answer :)
<Palisade> ice, so that's only temporary for now right?
* Knghtbrd really wants to avoid what happened with doom src  =/
<[Iceman]> it perm
<spinkham_> Palisade: do we want a dev and a normal channel though?
<Palisade> theodd, ohhhhhhh
<[Iceman]> ill just need the new host
<Palisade> knght, what happened with it?
<[Iceman]> uc1.dhs.org will always work too
<Palisade> ice, ah sweet, thanks
<[Iceman]> glad to help out any way i can
<Palisade> ice, get omni to point: irc.quakeforge.net there
<Knghtbrd> Palisade: a million different (slightly incompatible) forks of the s
ame   tree, lots of mistrust, lots of closed source (not possible under the GPL
 normally), etc
<Palisade> ice, and thanks a ton
<Knghtbrd> and very little attention to portability
<[Iceman]> i feel lonely on the new server, im the only one =)
<Palisade> ice, for now we'll stay here, because people are reading the forum a
nd coming here because of spink's message... but i'll announce irc.quakeforge.n
et when it's ready
<[Iceman]> okie
<theoddone33> One project as opposed to 300 projects is good, but individual pr
ojects also have their own worth
<Palisade> knght, i'm really happy id gpl'd this
<theoddone33> If you doubt, check out www.raven-games.com/jhexen.  That's *the*
 best thing anyone's done with the DOOM source
<Palisade> knght, carmack is a genius
<Knghtbrd> theoddone33: the problem is that at least 4 doom ports I know of imp
lemented a console
<[Iceman]> omnibus@users.sourceforge.net right?
<Palisade> knght, yeah i think this project can really turn into a hub as "the"
 quake project
<Knghtbrd> Palisade: yeah, Crow- and I got John to really liking the GPL...  It
 helps that he's both coder and decision type person...
<spinkham_> Palisade: Are we going to accomidate different branches of the proj
ect at any point?
<Knghtbrd> Getting 3dfx to release source was a pain in the ass
<Knghtbrd> I had to really wrestle with them on that
<Palisade> knght, i want this game to extend into a whole new environment... a 
virtual paradise..
<Knghtbrd> the PHB's and lawyers just didn't understand
<theoddone33> I think all branched projects should still have a compatability m
ode   with the main project for netplay
<theoddone33> That should be a rule
<Palisade> knght, i think that's where carmack is heading, he's mentioned virtu
al reality a lot in his .plan's
<theoddone33> or at least a strong suggestion :)
<Knghtbrd> someone finally convinced the PHBs that it was all good (wasn't me, 
must have been their coders) and I ended up with email from one of theyr lawyer
s with questions
<Palisade> knght, yeah the great thing about gpl is that even though you can't 
charge for the software, you can charge for distribution
<Palisade> knght, i think that's why carmack liked it
<[Iceman]> Palisade: whats his e-mail?
<Palisade> it allows the source to be open
* theoddone33 screams "We'll all be rich!"
<Palisade> but not defeat making it commercial
<Knghtbrd> actually, I can sell you the quake source for as much as I think you
'll pay
<Palisade> ice, no idea... check the project members.. here i'll do it
<[Iceman]> okie
<Knghtbrd> I just can't charge you for the source (other than what it costs me 
to give it to you) once you have the bin
<Knghtbrd> theoddone33: heh, I had the VA IPO letter...  *sob*
<spinkham_> Knghtbrd: speaking of which, who did the mini-gl port for 3dfx? is 
that code gonna be avalibe at any point?
<Palisade> knght, you can charge any amount you want for the method of distribu
tion
<Knghtbrd> My fax was 12 MINUTES pas the deadline
<Palisade> knght, just like redhat can charge $100 for their distribution of li
nux
<Knghtbrd> I didn't get any VA shares at $30 each *sob*
<[Iceman]> should we limit the number of staff that runs the site and CVS?
<Palisade> knght, VA's IPO rocked, i cried<Knghtbrd> Palisade: yes
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<Knghtbrd> Palisade: yes again
<Palisade> ice, we're going over that
<[Iceman]> okay
<spinkham_> hey case
<case> heya
<Palisade> theodd, yeah i wrote an entry in the open forum for that
<[Iceman]> woohoo! kerosene heater! warm.....
<Palisade> theodd, i really think we should maintain an "old" or "compatible" m
ode
<case> hows the compiling going? ;)
<theoddone33> Palisade: agreed
<Knghtbrd> Palisade: John would be pissed if we don't
<Palisade> theodd, that way people can play regular old quake against each othe
r (or half-life, etc)
<Palisade> knght, yeah
<Palisade> and then they can flip the switch and play the "new" mode
<theoddone33> Palisade: I've got to go, so if I'm going to log this, it'll end 
right here
<Palisade> which will include all the advancements we create
<Palisade> theoddone, ok
<Knghtbrd> I think we can actually put the "switch" in the pak file
<Palisade> someone else start logging maybe?
<Palisade> we need a bot dammit
<spinkham_> Palisade: I've been (i think ;-)
<Palisade> spink, you think?
<Palisade> i should probably be logging it, how do you log in bitchx?
* Knghtbrd is working on the EDGE "wad 2" format
<[Iceman]> Palisade: get his addy?
<Palisade> knght, EDGE?<Knghtbrd> it's mostly on paper now b/c of school
<Palisade> ice, email address
<[Iceman]> yeah
<Palisade> ice, oh... yeah hold on
<Knghtbrd> Palisade: dosdoom re-engineered to be portable, all around nicer, an
d just not suck like dosdoom did  =>
<Knghtbrd> most of the gory details are hush-hush still
<Palisade> ice, omnibus@users.sourceforge.net
<[Iceman]> okie 
<Knghtbrd> but wad2 isn't planned for our upcoming release anyway
<Palisade> hm
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<Knghtbrd> the idea is to use tar or something (q3a used zip afterall) and put 
a directory tree in it..  If I extract the lumps and tack headers to the tops o
f the files that tell the engine about the contents I can (in theory) change th
e format later and add new toys while maintaining compatibility with the old st
uff
<Palisade> ice, btw... does your irc server have chanserv, or do we need an egg
drop, and can you supply that?
<[Iceman]> im supplying services and an eggdrop
<Knghtbrd> the issue of course is that we have to maintain compatibility with t
he original game files
<Palisade> ice, great
<[Iceman]> i programmed my own services
<Palisade> ice, the eggdrop too?
<Knghtbrd> so I have to make sure I can still pick apart a wad lump by lump and
 for wads I'll just assume the correct headers since an old wad has to be forma
t "1.0" or whatever for everything
<Palisade> knght, yes<[Iceman]> i use standard eggie, but i have a few shells t
i set them up on
<Knghtbrd> we can do that kind of thing with q1/qw I suspect
<Palisade> knght, and we need to create a fully compatible pak file or get id t
o release it as gpl
<Knghtbrd> Deek isn't awake yet unfortunately
<Palisade> knght, talk to them about that
<Knghtbrd> he's got the best starting poing I think
<Palisade> knght, deek?
<Knghtbrd> them who?  the EDGE people?  I'm the one designing it
<Knghtbrd> Deek is the guy merging q1/qw trees and cleaning it all up
<theoddone33> ok, log ends right here